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I am a wind player so I am coming from a particular angle, I suppose, but it seems to me that there are still many dimensions of the variations in the instruments still available to capture. The one that stands out for me most, particularly in the flute and sax models is the very start of every note.

There are so many variations of tongueing that a flautist can use to change the character of the start of a note that are barely even ever taught mechanically, but become part of an almost unconscious practice of expression. The variations in breath pressure, lip positioning and shape, variation of tongue position. None of these can be easily expressed as a number between 0 and It is the consistency of starting that sounds to my ears, least realistic.

There isn't a single demo that can convince me to not spend a few extra bucks on hiring a sax player. I've been working on a concert piece for orchestra and Alto saxophone and I'm set to record the sax player and mix her with my orchestral mock-up. That being said, I've just been using ProjectSam's Swing series to cover my demo sax stuff and honestly, it doesn't sound great.

Their saxophones, arguably, are designed for big band stuff and I understand that but still, they aren't the best to program. Looking at Audio Modelling and Sample Modelling's libraries, they seem best designed to be used with a breath controller, and even then, they don't cut it for me when it comes to 'final product' results.

The saxophone family has such an intricate and nuanced sound that sampling them is just ridiculously hard. Traditional sampling produces a result that is obvious it's a sax but you clearly can't get the expression of it thus it sounds synthetic. Modelling them basically sends us straight into uncanny valley. We hear something extremely expressive and musical but still, our ears tell us it's not a real sax.

Sorry to rant on this thread. I've just been working very hard on this passion project written for solo sax and in all my research on available tools to create for that instrument, the only conclusion I can come up with where I get the results I want is to just hire a player. Don't ask me much about orchestral instruments, but when it comes to a tenor sax, I've been playing along side them for 30 years.

Sample libraries don't cut it. No matter how nice the samples themselves may sound, they just can't reproduce an exposed sax performance good enough for discerning ears.

Trying to get a realistic sax performance from a sample library is like trying to withdraw money from an empty ATM machine. The style of polkas and waltzes I play typically has a tenor sax playing the lead on top of the accordion, so it's exposed, but probably not quite as demanding of expression as a solo sax performance.

Still, no sample library could come close to pulling off the job. When I got the Audio Modeling saxes last year, I was finally freed from the limitations of samples, and what a world of difference it's made. All of the sax and clarinet parts on my upcoming CD are Audio Modeling. I could have hired a real player, but for the first time ever, I didn't have to.

Granted, I spent hours and hours editing those tracks, practically shaping every note, but I got results. When Audio Modeling comes out with brass instruments, I'll be the first person in line with my credit card out. As someone who grew up surrounded by jazz and jazz musicians, I agree completely. The saxes seem to be pretty much the hardest possible instrument to realistically sample.

However, in my opinion we are now at least in a situation where a section blended with the rest of the band is fooling almost anyone- it's the exposed solo stuff that still isn't quite there.

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